STUDENT SENATE JOURNAL
Thursday, March 16, 2006
APPROVED DRAFT
Forrest
Hinton, Student Senate President, Presiding
Senate is
called to session, 9:06pm.
There were twenty-eight (28) Senators (Adams, Barnes,
Bellamy, Cariaga, Greg Doucette for Compton, Culp, Fabricius, Gardner, Griggs,
Hager, Haggard, Hankins, Heath, Hughes, Hutcherson, Kling, M. Lloyd, Long,
Mckethan, Mickey, Musick, K. Phillips, Saunders, Christine DiPeitro for Sawrey,
Sevits, Wally, Walton, Winfree) present. There was also one (1) non-voting
member (F. Hinton) present.
There were twenty-seven (27) Senators (Brannan, Carter,
Collins, Dimond, Douglas, Maria Evans, Gluck, Godfrey, Gula, Hoy, Kelly, Kersh,
Lofvenholm, McArthur, Miller, Moye, Norman, Oluronbi, Santiago, Shivers, R.
Smith, Templeton, Waldrup, J. Washington, Whitehouse, Wilburn, Yasin) absent.
There were also two (2) non-voting members (Murden, Toms) absent.
The following official was also present: Piavis.
A quorum was present.
SSP Forrest Hinton: We’re set up British Parliament style since our rostrum is being repaired and upgraded.
Reads two letters of correspondence from Dr. Stafford.
[Letter 1]
[Letter 2]
No objection was voiced to adopt revised agenda for evening submitted by SSP Forrest Hinton.
SBP Whil Piavis: Stacking boxes in front of room to establish a makeshift podium. Apologizes for not being dressed in pirate garb.
SBP Whil Piavis: [The second paragraph is not indented he notes]. Ignore note on judicial assistants as placed in the reason for veto. On the first part, “to approve all disbursements of student body funds,” I don’t agree with that. I have commissions that need funds to run successful programs. Having each one of these questioned by the Student Body Treasurer and approved is ridiculous. It is not necessary. The second part is about the franchise and citizenship. We got a letter from Dr. Stafford regarding that, so we could save a lot of time by just dealing with this next year.
SBP Whil Piavis: [Presents emails]. I got 28 replies, 24 said yes, 3 said no to having all positions being filled by full time students. I guess that’ll speak for itself. I feel there is a vast majority of students who feel full-time should be required to serve as an officer. How high do you think I can count in a minute? [Once notified we had one minute left].
Sen. Erich Fabricius: Are you aware that approving disbursements has been in the constitution for thirty years? It is the exact same clause. Nothing would change and this constitution is not about changing budgetary process.
Sen. Erich Fabricius: The clause is referenced in Section H. In the original constitution in 1969 this clause was part of the Treasurer’s job, then moved to the Comptroller once it was created.
Sen. Matt Walton: How much consultation did you have with Dr. Stafford before you vetoed it?
SBP Whil Piavis: He told me to look at it, but I’m not aware of further emails.
Sen. Grayson Cariaga: How did you go about selecting these people that replied to your emails?
SBP Whil Piavis: I sent out messages to facebook members.
Sen. Hutcherson: Where does it say in our constitution that Dr. Stafford is able to stop us amending our constitution? Did he order you to veto this?
SBP Whil Piavis: NO.
Sen. Hutcherson: Do you feel the administration has the power to stop us from amending our constitution from our current constitution’s wording?
Sen. Barnes: I checked myself [in response to the approval of expenditures debate prior], this is a responsibility moved from the Comptroller to the Treasurer, who is the Comptroller’s boss.
SBP Whil Piavis: I no longer object.
Greg Doucette: Do you feel it is constitution it keeps part-time students ineligible? Then you do you reconcile that the Student Body Constitution also states “The Student Senate shall be composed of fifty-eight to sixty-four Senators who shall represent each of the schools and colleges of the University and special students.”
Sen. Zach Adams: The stance you’re taking is almost congruent with Dr. Stafford’s. Don’t you feel you should look at this is the way we’ve been operating Student Government for over 20 years? This is simply a change to make the constitution state more clearly how Student Government has operated for years, it doesn’t cause anything new to happen.
SBP Whil Piavis: I spoke to 250 students. Only about 5 were against part-times not being included.
Sen. Zach Adams: How many were part-time? I think the way you ask the question you did had a large bearing on the results you received. Do you feel that?
SBP Whil Piavis: I have no idea.
SBT Seneca Toms: Did you ask those students “How do you feel about paying into a student organization you can’t participate in?”
SBP Whil Piavis: No. I think if you look at voters, they don’t know if your part-time unless advertised. I don’t believe that those who are minimally on campus are those I want representing me. I talked to 250 students, and they agree, that’s why I vetoed this bill.
Sen. Matt Walton: You asked Anna Edens? She’s not even a student anymore. You want to give students a voice, but you’ve contradicted your own defense.
Unidentified Senator: How were the question sent out?
SBP Whil Piavis: I sent this out on the pirate group and another one I guess.
Sen. Matt Walton: Do you realize when you send this to your own facebook group you tend to get responses back often similar to your own view?
Sen. Michael Lloyd: I don’t know how I’m going to vote on this. Most people don’t know what a student senator is but when I asked my classmates today, I got about 60-70% didn’t want part-times.
Sen. Adam Compton: Are you aware of the fact that Duke and Wake Forrest Student Body President’s are not full time students?
SBP Whil Piavis: Yes, that could be part of the later debate.
Sen. James Kling: Is your argument that we shouldn’t override the veto for this reason?
SBP Whil Piavis: I think this is really something needs to be looked into later.
Sen. Erich Fabricius: This is the franchise and citizenship clause. If they are not included in this clause they are not part of the Student Body. They would no longer be able to receive appropriations, or have other rights of participation all students have now.
Sen. Tracy Hucherson: You [Whil Piavis] have just lied. Your email says nothing of not being able to serve. Your basing your veto on 28 students. [Spoke to Mari, Andrew Payne’s position is to allow part-time students].
Unidentified Senator: How many part-time students, or less than full time voted for you?
[Motion made by Sen. Fabricius to override veto, seconded. Acclimation called and objected to. Consent called, objected to. Debate begins.]
Sen. Erich Fabricius: We’re talking of a quarter of our student body, 7,000 students. We need to do something to protect those students. We need to have a longer debate, but we need to have the status-quo as the starting point! We need to start the conversation at the point we’ve been at for the past 20 years, allowing all 30,000 students to participate.
Sen. Michael Lloyd: Basically, this whole veto thing, I spoke with some students. Does part-time students get tickets? We’re not sure of a lot of things, and as long as we agree to bring this up again for discussion, I will vote to override.
Sen. Zach Adams: We will be bringing this up in Senate next year. We need to keep in mind that this is the way we’ve been doing it for 20 years, and when we have this discussion, the 7,000 students now threatened to be disenfranchised need to stay involved. We can change it next year to make it how it should be if students want this. We can’t change precedence over 20 years because we’ve found a new way to look at the existing constitution.
Sen. Andrew Barnes: No where else in the University do we discriminate against full time and part time students. You can go to the gym, be a member of a student organization, but not participate in Student Government? The discussion later is valid, but I am for the override of the veto because this is a veto to STOP A VOTE!!! This is ludicrous. This is staying he doesn’t want the student body to decide for themselves with a vote [on the spring ballot as a referendum].
[Consent to end debate has been called, and objected to.]
Greg Doucette: As a proxy I had no intention of speaking tonight, but I had lunch with the members of the North Carolina General Assembly today… my hair is not grey and I don’t golf well so I didn’t have much to talk about. I showed the recent article published in the Technician to real politicians, the one where the paper agreed with the Pirate [editorial titled “Sorry part-timers,” published 3.16.06]. Democrats and Republicans both disagreed, and they said things I can’t repeat since this is a family friendly forum. This has been a nation with a strong tradition of opposition of “taxation without representation.”
[Acclimation called on the veto override.]
SSP Forrest Hinton: Any objections to acclimation? GB 96 has herby passed by acclimation.
[Cheers and applause erupts throughout the Student Senate].
SSP Forrest Hinton: I will let the Elections Commission students know to put this referendum on the ballot for a vote.
SBP Whil Piavis: Resolution 98 is better if I read it by Pirate talk. [A matey doesn’t like to sleep on the top bunk with a nuce around his neck. We cut it to save him. Resolution 98 doesn’t do anything... ].
***SECRETARY’S NOTE***
Although I made a deliberate attempt to jot down Whil Piavis’ comments in their entirety, in all due respect, I was unable to type proper “pirate” in any sort of readable manor. Prior to publishing, if a summary is provided to me so I can clearly lay out his stance I’d be glad to include it. It is not my intent to discriminate, so please contact me if you feel I have done otherwise and would like changes made. – Sen. Joe Sevits, Student Senate Secretary
***SECRETARY’S NOTE***
Sen. Erich Fabricius: Do you believe in Student self-governance?
SBP Whil Piavis: Yes.
SBT Seneca Toms: Do you feel the administration can step in freely to nullify the opinions we voice and actions we take?
SBP Whil Piavis: I think we should tell them exactly what on our mind. But I vetoed it because I didn’t want my name on it. I don’t care if you override it.
Sen. Matt Walton: The administration is trying to intervene in internal affairs.
SBP Whil Piavis: I think it [R 98] is in violation of the [Student Body] Constitution.
[Motion made to override veto, consent called, objected to].
Sen. James Hankins: I felt this resolution needed a check on it. But with recent events in mind, and after reading the email from Dr. Stafford, I am against the decision I made previously on this issue. I don’t want to give more power to Big Brother. I did change my mind on this issue, I rarely do, but I did. [I support the veto override].
Sen. John Mickey: My heart just about dropped out after reading this letter. For everything we do here, Dr. Stafford put down an iron fist and Dr. Obligner is allowing him to do this. I ask that the Senate override this, and by acclimation, because we do need to send a message to the administration. The Board of Governors says we need a Student Government, but if we can’t do anything, I will have to go someplace else where I can make a difference.
Sen. Tracy Hutcherson: During the government operations meeting, I was handed a letter instructing the committee to cease the proceedings from Dr. Stafford. The administration is interveneing. Do you want the Student Government run by students, or
Sen. Forrest Hinton: Does anyone have debate in the negative?
Sen. Michael Lloyd: [In the negative] I sat down in the tuition and fees meeting with Dr. Stafford, and what he did was a slap in our face. We can’t do the same to him again and again. We need to talk to Dr. Oblinger and go higher up the chain. We have a right to do that. By doing this [overriding veto], we aren’t sending this [resolution] to Dr. Stafford, we are sending it to the whole administration. And we’re fighting one person.
Sen. Erich Fabricius: We aren’t talking about this because we’ve broke Student Government, it is being done because the Administration is not respecting the body. We need a system of authority between the Administration and Student Government delineating a given group of decision making rights to each, this is what our Constitution once provided. Every decision we make doesn’t have to be approved, but the ability to make those decisions must.
Sen. Michael Lloyd: We need to deal with this behind the scenes rather than in front. I don’t feel we have talked to all the administration.
Sen. Matt Walton: I feel that this is a slap in the face to all students, and it may be time for the Vice Chancellor of Student Affairs to perhaps retire. We need an Administration to work with students, and not fight us.
Sen. Seneca Toms: What house have we burned down? We haven’t committed any crime, we haven’t been doing anything wrong. What we’re talking about is the ability [confused with GB 98 since walked in late, but provided well articulated argument for override]
Sen. Kasey Phillips: I’m speaking in the negative. I don’t agree with all Dr. Stafford says, but I agree with some of what Sen. Lloyd says. We have created a rift between the Students and the Administration, and we don’t need to make it any larger.
Sen. Joe Sevits: In response to the previous comments made about meeting with administrators beforehand; I met personally with Dr. Deb Luckadoo in Student Affairs to discuss the involvement of part-time students in Student Government as mentioned in the previous veto discussion. She has no desire to participate in debate with students in Student Government now or in the future and felt that actions to intervene by part of the Administration is what needs to be done to exclude part-time students. She has recommended this to Dr. Stafford. I want to mention it was a respectful discussion throughout.
Sen. Sara Yasin: What are we really talking about? We as students, passing legislation, this is how the Student Senate lets out our voice. This is not a slap in the face, we’re spending our time representing students’ interests and voicing student opinion. We shouldn’t let the administration prevent us from taking these actions.
Sen. Erich Fabricius: We have great productive working relationships with those in academic units and service units of the Administration. We can’t let everyone become confused that if those in Student Affairs are irritated, everyone in the University Administration is irritated. This is not the entire University Administration that is upset and much of the Administration supports Student Government.
[Previous question moved, seconded, by consent so moved. Consent called to override veto on R 98, objected to. Roll call vote requested and one fifth of the Student Senate rose. Roll call vote held].
There were twenty-eight (28) Senators (Adams, Barnes, Bellamy,
Cariaga, Compton, Culp, Fabricius, Gardner, Godfrey, Griggs, Haggard, Hankins,
Hughes, Hutcherson, Kling, M. Lloyd, Long, McArthur, Mckethan, Mickey, Musick,
Norman, Saunders, Christine DiPeitro for Sawrey, Sevits, Wally, Walton, Yasin)
voting in the affirmative.
There were three (3) Senators (Hager, K. Phillips,
Whitehouse) voting in the negative.
There was one (1) Senator (Heath) present but not voting.
There were twenty-three (23) Senators (Brannan, Carter,
Collins, Dimond, Douglas, Maria Evans, Gluck, Gula, Hoy, Kelly, Kersh,
Lofvenholm, Miller, Moye, Oluronbi, Santiago, Shivers, R. Smith, Templeton,
Waldrup, J. Washington, Wilburn, Winfree) absent.
A quorum was present.
The Mickey motion to override the veto of R 98, Legislative
Nullification Act, requiring two-thirds support for adoption, was adopted by a
margin of 28-3.
[Veto was overridden by a vote of 28-3-1].
[Motion made to adjourn, seconded, voice vote held, ayes have it].
There were thirty-three (33) Senators (Adams, Barnes,
Bellamy, Cariaga, Compton, Culp, Fabricius, Gardner, Godfrey, Griggs, Gula,
Hager, Haggard, Hankins, Heath, Hughes, Hutcherson, Kling, M. Lloyd, Long,
McArthur, Mckethan, Mickey, Musick, Norman, K. Phillips, Saunders, Christine
DiPeitro for Sawrey, Sevits, Wally, Walton, Whitehouse, Yasin) present. There
were also two (2) non-voting members (F. Hinton, Toms) present.
There were twenty-two (22) Senators (Brannan, Carter,
Collins, Dimond, Douglas, Maria Evans, Gluck, Hoy, Kelly, Kersh, Lofvenholm,
Miller, Moye, Oluronbi, Santiago, Shivers, R. Smith, Templeton, Waldrup, J.
Washington, Wilburn, Winfree) absent. There was also one (1) non-voting member
(Murden) absent.
A quorum was present.